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Post by Rijnius on Feb 18, 2024 18:32:21 GMT
I am tempted to clarify that I would love to play on a new EE server with exactly the build version (or the same features) we had on the last running server back then with 1.69. A lot of the discussed changes are indeed a bit controversial, depending on each one's favorite playstyle. But it looks that there is also some common ground on some smaller aspects worth considering while we're at it - especially if we happen to start with a fresh vault again. Bolto definitely has a point that the game might become way too hard especially in some endgame areas, if we strip away too much power all of a sudden.
One more thing out-of-game: I don't think it would be a good idea having two versions or two servers as long as we don't hit the player cap. That would split the player base and having two versions doubles the maintenance efforts for keeping both mods/versions up-to-date.
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Post by taroc on Feb 18, 2024 20:00:51 GMT
One more thing out-of-game: I don't think it would be a good idea having two versions or two servers as long as we don't hit the player cap. That would split the player base and having two versions doubles the maintenance efforts for keeping both mods/versions up-to-date. I think if we get the old vault back, there's no harm in having a server running 1.69. I think once the final update is added to it, maintenance would be minimal and most dev work would be focused on the EE server. You could have a point about splitting the player base but if someone doesn't want to play 3T EE, they would likely look elsewhere anyways. All speculation really, given how old the hardware is, how many players have been through in all those years, how many characters each of those players created, and therefore how many write cycles the HDD will have performed, I doubt we'll see our old characters again. |
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Post by chreelister on Feb 18, 2024 20:28:56 GMT
Patiently awaiting Bolto's Power Leveling Guide To 40 For Idiots In A Week to drop at the local bookstore.  Yes you too can be in Isle of Secrets at Level 30 with only Tier 1 drops!!! |
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Post by mcbutcher on Feb 19, 2024 5:51:06 GMT
Patiently awaiting Bolto's Power Leveling Guide To 40 For Idiots In A Week to drop at the local bookstore. Yes you too can be in Isle of Secrets at Level 30 with only Tier 1 drops!!! Haha if you have the time you can definitely get to 40 in a week. Especially on a caster or bard like build. But I'd welcome Bolto's guide 😉 Edit, ok maybe not so easily with tier 1 drops ffs 😂 😂 😂 |
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Post by Brizzer on Feb 19, 2024 10:00:59 GMT
Would just like to note that he did have some help from the friendly Neighbourhood druid ;P
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Post by mcbutcher on Feb 19, 2024 14:52:31 GMT
My opinions on the above mentioned. and a couple ideas/suggestions. I may change my mind on these, or come up with other potential ideas so can chime in again later 1. Drones/Clones. no need to change the drones themselves. If changing the drones strength I would advise consideration that casters and bards don't really need the drone's dmg - they use the drone as a lure/bate etc. fighters and ranged toons need the drone's dmg to help with casters. So if there's a way to change that a fighter gets a different drone to a caster then that might be an option 2. GS Cloak. - happy for this to go, but also no problem with it staying 3. Too easy to level. I love the aspect of levelling fast - but now we have access to the statues that give level 11 toons and lvl 40, so if the fast levelling is taken away it wouldn't be the end of the world. However, there is also a way to make your levelling more hardcore - I am not sure exactly how it's done from a dev aspect but I was on a couple of servers that gave an option on start up to go hardcore, making xp and gold slower. Just because some people may want the challenge while levelling up no need to punish the players who enjoy farming and just getting to 40 as fast as possible. I know that there are multiple players that like to level up and when they get to 40 they make another toon with not much interest end game farming so this could be a way to suit both players 4. Randoms. Love them, and can't see anyone not loving them 5. Puissant Bonus on Shifters. I am fine with how things are, but can't see it being too much of a nerf taking away the unfocused buff 6. Barbs. no idea why they're even up for suggested changes. they're an ok ish build, but not a broken build in my opinion. they are easy enough to level up and to gear up as well but there are far better farming builds. 7. Summons. I think they actually are pretty *chirp* end game, only a cleric or a druid will use the ele summon because they have no other option, but a mage usually uses their undead summon because it's better both defensively and offensively and they have a couple options - melee and ranged. levelling up they are probably OP. Also, give druid an option to get better summons, druid has the potential to be such a cool build but they are just too weak compared to clerics with new domains, and mages 8. Seasonal Bonuses. I am all for the seasonal bonus' - I don't think making their drops more rare is the way to go, because some people like to use them for rewards, some people like to use them for XP. but the bonus itself could maybe be adjusted. can't think right now what I would suggest in that regard 9. Immunity Items. I like being able to get them, but yeah there are some savage random drops with unreal extras on them that make them better than even having 2-3 t11's and they only take up one slot. So, give them a max property of 2-3 maybe? so a possible mind or death immune item could still have other stats but the better the stat the rarer they are 10. New Forge Stones. great as they are. 11. Greater Restore/Heal pots - leave them as they are. if anything at all, make it so that you need heal skill to use. But I'd suggest leaving as they are. |
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Post by taroc on Feb 19, 2024 16:21:35 GMT
The more I read the more I'm thinking we should just leave everything alone aside from removing Gsanc Cloaks, and even then, it's not really hurting anyone.
Changes in the past were for class balancing for PvP. Since PvP isn't a thing, the only other consideration is endgame difficulty and I think it was perfectly balanced as it was in the last iteration of 1.69. As a DM I still saw plenty of bard cursors respawning. The only thing I would change is the gold cost and xp at 40 for death/respawn. The xp loss would nerf the drone as long as it's levels aren't coded so it can't delevel.
There's honestly no need to change anything else.
I really like McButcher's suggestion of a hardcore route as an option in the entry zone when creating a new toon for those that want it.
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Post by chreelister on Feb 19, 2024 16:55:01 GMT
This was mentioned before and I wasn't really for it then. The only way I would spend time putting this in, and it could be a bit of an aggravation to put in (determining XP when you are grouped with somebody softcore comes to mind), is if you got something in return. Because I wouldn't want to play Hardcore unless I got something from it or everybody else was forced to play Hardcore too. Getting XP is just a part of it. In the current EE server, what is making it hardcore for me, is the lack of gold and lack of certain items, like DR, I am used to leveling with, not what XP I am getting. If I had the gold and items, or could get my hands on them, then leveling would be a lot easier and it wouldn't be so Hardcore at all, because XP is only changed a little. I can't think of a good way, in the last v1.69 server anyways, where I could make it so I couldn't get my hands on the items or get more gold than I can basically spend like all the softcore players. You can't easily change what the BM sells and drops are determined when the creature is spawned. But then what, after that, if you figured all of that out? What benefit would a person get going this route? There would have to be a benefit in order to do this, in my opinion. The only thing I could think of would be to start at a higher level, maybe? But that is what is hardcore about the EE server, trying to get where you can get Haste boots, in my opinion. To me, the only way this would work, unless somebody brings up some good options or ideas, would be 2 different vaults in 2 different servers.
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Post by mcbutcher on Feb 19, 2024 18:13:28 GMT
With all of the players on here, I am sure we can come up with some idea.
When I see someone making suggestions, it gets my mind going and trying to come up with something else. so keep the ideas coming from everyone and I am sure the penny will drop somewhere
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Post by kid on Feb 19, 2024 18:54:56 GMT
Well, for summons at least, I think the measuring stick that should be used would be comparing it to whatever the highest purity dedicated summoners have at that level (obviously its a bit sticky at early lvls since BG takes a while to get into and get a summon and epic classes make it a bit of a pain) and make sure it's weaker.
To give an example:
3 wiz 7 pm vs lvl 10cleric/druid/wiz/sorc/bard should absolutely have the PM with a better summon.
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Post by taroc on Feb 19, 2024 19:24:50 GMT
This was mentioned before and I wasn't really for it then. The only way I would spend time putting this in, and it could be a bit of an aggravation to put in (determining XP when you are grouped with somebody softcore comes to mind), is if you got something in return. Because I wouldn't want to play Hardcore unless I got something from it or everybody else was forced to play Hardcore too. Getting XP is just a part of it. In the current EE server, what is making it hardcore for me, is the lack of gold and lack of certain items, like DR, I am used to leveling with, not what XP I am getting. If I had the gold and items, or could get my hands on them, then leveling would be a lot easier and it wouldn't be so Hardcore at all, because XP is only changed a little. I can't think of a good way, in the last v1.69 server anyways, where I could make it so I couldn't get my hands on the items or get more gold than I can basically spend like all the softcore players. You can't easily change what the BM sells and drops are determined when the creature is spawned. But then what, after that, if you figured all of that out? What benefit would a person get going this route? There would have to be a benefit in order to do this, in my opinion. The only thing I could think of would be to start at a higher level, maybe? But that is what is hardcore about the EE server, trying to get where you can get Haste boots, in my opinion. To me, the only way this would work, unless somebody brings up some good options or ideas, would be 2 different vaults in 2 different servers. I think that's fair enough and your dev time would be better spent on something else. I think the rose-tinted glasses are working fine; we remember how 'good' 3T used to be, then a 10 year old version of 3T lands on EE and the past maybe isn't so great. I think we forget it was great back then because we didn't have what we had now - NWN wasn't patched to no where near 1.69 and there were so many bugs and features missing that we take for granted now, which in turn limits what's achievable by the dev team at the time. I'm happy if nothing changes but not strongly opposed to anything that's been suggested so far. |
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Post by tils on Feb 20, 2024 2:51:46 GMT
This was mentioned before and I wasn't really for it then. The only way I would spend time putting this in, and it could be a bit of an aggravation to put in (determining XP when you are grouped with somebody softcore comes to mind), is if you got something in return. Because I wouldn't want to play Hardcore unless I got something from it or everybody else was forced to play Hardcore too. Getting XP is just a part of it. In the current EE server, what is making it hardcore for me, is the lack of gold and lack of certain items, like DR, I am used to leveling with, not what XP I am getting. If I had the gold and items, or could get my hands on them, then leveling would be a lot easier and it wouldn't be so Hardcore at all, because XP is only changed a little. I can't think of a good way, in the last v1.69 server anyways, where I could make it so I couldn't get my hands on the items or get more gold than I can basically spend like all the softcore players. You can't easily change what the BM sells and drops are determined when the creature is spawned. But then what, after that, if you figured all of that out? What benefit would a person get going this route? There would have to be a benefit in order to do this, in my opinion. The only thing I could think of would be to start at a higher level, maybe? But that is what is hardcore about the EE server, trying to get where you can get Haste boots, in my opinion. To me, the only way this would work, unless somebody brings up some good options or ideas, would be 2 different vaults in 2 different servers. I think that's fair enough and your dev time would be better spent on something else. I think the rose-tinted glasses are working fine; we remember how 'good' 3T used to be, then a 10 year old version of 3T lands on EE and the past maybe isn't so great. I think we forget it was great back then because we didn't have what we had now - NWN wasn't patched to no where near 1.69 and there were so many bugs and features missing that we take for granted now, which in turn limits what's achievable by the dev team at the time. I'm happy if nothing changes but not strongly opposed to anything that's been suggested so far. totally agree! |
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Post by mcbutcher on Feb 20, 2024 8:45:13 GMT
regarding tokens and bonuses. I was thinking about it and I understand your reasoning behind wanting to make the more rare. but the issue might occur similar to what Bolto was saying about not wanting to play when the bonus is low.
I know Chree you have coded it so that when the bonuses are low then the items drop more often to boost them. would making them drop more often, when less players are on be a good idea? or delay the bonuses reducing or something? just throwing out some ideas.
Regarding regular tokens (like bandits, ssthla, elementals and so on) I feel like these should be made less rare (not including the tokens bonus) but the reward be lower on xp and gold etc, and more rare to get a good item if you choose item reward. I have often gotten an uber item from elementals token hand in, like level 30ish item on a level 12 toon. The items are usually useless, but you get a lot of gold from the sale. But if you're farming those areas and not finding any tokens, it feels more like a grind. If you're finding tokens it feels more fun to me. If the tokens drop more often then it kinda feels like the early quests in newer RPG's where you have to kill enemies and collect an amount of their drops and turn them in for xp and gold etc. So it's kinda like little side quests.
Anyone else agree on this?
I'll be back with more terrible ideas later
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Post by Brizzer on Feb 20, 2024 9:12:52 GMT
I have just gotten my pure druid to 40. I can safely say that summons in their current state need some slight buffing. Maybe not to the levels that they were previously but some help is definitely needed.
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Yes you too can be in Isle of Secrets at Level 30 with only Tier 1 drops!!!
