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Post by mcbutcher on Mar 27, 2017 19:33:26 GMT
Why not take Spellcraft to 43, unless you got the points reserved for something else? If you don't, I would choose to take Spellcraft to 38 then and the last level of Druid sooner, like 35. Hmm dunno why I thought it had to be in multiples of 5. Even though I've been playing here 10 years I'm *chirp*e at building haha. 43 it is
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Post by Cheshire Rat on Mar 27, 2017 22:32:20 GMT
Took a stab at cleaning this up - many missing feats starting at 18, so I took some guesses. I reworked your progression to avoid XP penalty for getting FTR/MNK more than 2 apart.
___________________________________________________________ Druid(20), Monk(10), Fighter(10), Human
STR: 9 DEX: 8 CON: 17 (21) WIS: 14 (22) INT: 16 CHA: 8
Human: (Quick to Master) 01: Druid(1): Luck of Heroes, Blind Fight 02: Druid(2) 03: Monk(1): Toughness, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist} 04: Druid(3): CON+1, (CON=18) 05: Druid(4) 06: Monk(2): Weapon Focus: Unarmed, {Deflect Arrows} 07: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus: Morning Star 08: Druid(5): CON+1, (CON=19) 09: Druid(6): Extend Spell 10: Fighter(2): Weapon Specialization: Unarmed 11: Monk(3) 12: Druid(7): CON+1, Improved Critical: Kama, (CON=20) 13: Fighter(3) 14: Druid(8) 15: Monk(4): Improved Critical: Unarmed 16: Druid(9): CON+1, (CON=21) 17: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Morning Star 18: Druid(10) 19: Monk(5) 20: Druid(11): WIS+1, (WIS=15) 21: Fighter(5): Epic Weapon Focus: Unarmed 22: Druid(12) 23: Monk(6): {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown} 24: Druid(13): WIS+1, Epic Weapon Focus: Morning Star, (WIS=16) 25: Fighter(6): Epic Weapon Specialization: Unarmed 26: Druid(14) 27: Monk(7): Epic Damage Reduction I 28: Druid(15): WIS+1, (WIS=17) 29: Fighter(7) 30: Druid(16): Epic Damage Reduction II 31: Monk(8) 32: Druid(17): WIS+1, (WIS=18) 33: Fighter(8): Epic Damage Reduction III, Epic Weapon Specialization: Morning Star 34: Druid(18) 35: Monk(9): {Improved Evasion} 36: Druid(19): WIS+1, Great Wisdom I, (WIS=20) 37: Fighter(9) 38: Fighter(10): Armor Skin 39: Monk(10): Great Wisdom II, (WIS=21) 40: Druid(20): WIS+1, (WIS=22)
Hitpoints: 580 Skillpoints: 324 Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 31/29/18 Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +9, Mind Effects: +2, Fear: +2 BAB: 25 AB (max, naked): 27 (melee), 24 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 27/30 Spell Casting: Druid(9) Alignment Changes: 0
Discipline 42(41), Parry 43(42), Spellcraft 43(46), Tumble 40(39), remaining skillpoints 156
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Post by mcbutcher on Mar 27, 2017 23:18:14 GMT
Haha when I came home I forgot to finish it off and played the game instead. I'm now in bed. Couple things though, I will take 4 druid straight away in epics to get access to elemental shape. I started with 14 Intel and 16 wisdom so didn't take any great wisdom feats.
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Post by mcbutcher on Mar 27, 2017 23:22:42 GMT
Epic prowess and epic skill focus discipline will be in place of those. But that is pretty much my build. I'm using phone now and very tired so ill have to sort it out tomorrow. Thanks for the comment Cheshire rat.
Did you use CBC to write that up and export it?
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Post by Cheshire Rat on Mar 28, 2017 0:31:26 GMT
Did you use CBC to write that up and export it? ayup - figured out it pastes clean from 'Quick Comment' but not the full reply. Happy to send the xlsx to you if you want to save a bit of data entry.
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Post by joakim on Mar 28, 2017 4:57:58 GMT
Did you use CBC to write that up and export it? ayup - figured out it pastes clean from 'Quick Comment' but not the full reply. Happy to send the xlsx to you if you want to save a bit of data entry. I'm a little morning tired here, but I think you missed that he needs 3 x Imp critical (to my knowledge). He needs 2 in a weapon he is not going to use (unarmed and morningstar), and one in Kama since Air element is using that. The Kama will then be counted as an unfocused weapon and give you higher puissant dmg bonus. There is one more thing to take into account here. If you take "more" fighter lvls earlier (before lvl 20) you should get higher AB, but doing so will also get you slightly less feats in epic lvls.For example, epic prowess and armor skin are bonus feats for a fighter so getting more fighter lvls later will make it possible to get those. Not sure it will make up for the lost fighter lvls earlier tho (AB wise). I can also safely say (according to tests) that going 22 Wisdom is a total waste for the build. This is due to the fact that there is only 10 monk lvls. And 10 monk lvls, will only give you 5AC here, no matter what. Monk is nerfed that way so you can only get 1AC / per 2 monk lvls. We spoke of this ingame Mr. butcher, but I may not have explained it in detail then. This is not a biggie tho, as he will still have plenty of skillpoint continuing with his own suggested stats, and will instead of skill points get 1 more spellslot.
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Post by Cheshire Rat on Mar 28, 2017 6:32:55 GMT
You can safely shift 4-5 Druid levels post Epic if you like, but the Ftr/Mnk levels need to stay close and less than Druid if you care about the XP hit (if not, I'd really consider Dwarf). Apparently you have two Great Wisdom that can easily be converted to IC:MS and a free feat - if you loose that pulling in Ftr, that's fine. I'm not sure why you have INT so high though. Drop that to 12 or 14 gets you some room for Dex.
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Post by joakim on Mar 28, 2017 7:02:28 GMT
You can safely shift 4-5 Druid levels post Epic if you like, but the Ftr/Mnk levels need to stay close and less than Druid if you care about the XP hit (if not, I'd really consider Dwarf). Apparently you have two Great Wisdom that can easily be converted to IC:MS and a free feat - if you loose that pulling in Ftr, that's fine. I'm not sure why you have INT so high though. Drop that to 12 or 14 gets you some room for Dex. You see, the only stats that "really" matter for this build is Cons, and Int. Constitution to 21 to be able to take Epic damage reduction, and two intelligence for skill points. the dex and strenght and cons won't add to the elemental shape. The elemental has it's own stats. The feats EDR and skillpoints from int though, those are ofcourse still useful. Barb is absolutely not a choose for this build for that simple reason, u want more feats not less. And it certainly doesn't have room for feats like Great wisdom or constitution (which doesn't even help btw, since Wisdom get capped AC wise at 20 as I previously wrote), the build is feature pretty feature starved as it is, if you don't count all the bonus feats you get from multiclassing, which ofcourse is a lot.
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Post by mcbutcher on Mar 28, 2017 8:34:20 GMT
You can safely shift 4-5 Druid levels post Epic if you like, but the Ftr/Mnk levels need to stay close and less than Druid if you care about the XP hit (if not, I'd really consider Dwarf). Apparently you have two Great Wisdom that can easily be converted to IC:MS and a free feat - if you loose that pulling in Ftr, that's fine. I'm not sure why you have INT so high though. Drop that to 12 or 14 gets you some room for Dex. My Intel is 14 mate. I don't know why you have it at 16 lol. I started with 16 wisdom, put 4 points into CON while levelling and the rest in wisdom which brings it to 22 Joakim I didn't realise that was you in game. Thanks for the advice, a few other people I spoke to said that they went intel 14 at start and 21 con, rest wisdom. I have no need for any more skill points so no point putting points there. I was under the impression that wisdom was boosting AC, will save and giving me some extra spell slots. I am not the most proficient at building so a lot of this I am only learning. Can someone confirm?
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Post by joakim on Mar 28, 2017 9:13:52 GMT
You can safely shift 4-5 Druid levels post Epic if you like, but the Ftr/Mnk levels need to stay close and less than Druid if you care about the XP hit (if not, I'd really consider Dwarf). Apparently you have two Great Wisdom that can easily be converted to IC:MS and a free feat - if you loose that pulling in Ftr, that's fine. I'm not sure why you have INT so high though. Drop that to 12 or 14 gets you some room for Dex. My Intel is 14 mate. I don't know why you have it at 16 lol. I started with 16 wisdom, put 4 points into CON while levelling and the rest in wisdom which brings it to 22 Joakim I didn't realise that was you in game. Thanks for the advice, a few other people I spoke to said that they went intel 14 at start and 21 con, rest wisdom. I have no need for any more skill points so no point putting points there. I was under the impression that wisdom was boosting AC, will save and giving me some extra spell slots. I am not the most proficient at building so a lot of this I am only learning. Can someone confirm? You are correct, Wisdom boost "monk" AC. However, since monks AC progression is nerfed on 3T, u will only be able to get 1 AC / 2 monk lvl's. And since you only got 10 in the end that's 5 AC max, which you will have by raising wisdom to 20. the two points in wisdom will however give you 1 more point in Will, which "mostly" isn't useful either since the build is pretty much immune to mind affecting spells. U can get blinded however, but that's nothing a potion won't fix. When I typed Barb is not correct for this build, I meant dwarf as a race. Human is by far the most suitable race for this build since 1) skillpoints matter. 2) features matter. And human got the most of both. Beginning stats doesn't help you in any other way than that you will 1) Be able to carry a bit more in human form. 2) have a bit more hp as to not immediately die when something hit you. But TBH, this is not something to worry much about since you won't be spending many minutes in human form except for when looking for a party or buffing. Why int 16, well it's not really neccassary, i would probably help more in con or strenght (for carrying), however, it makes it possible to go nuts with skills, like max out lore, or maybe move silently and hide. Perhaps getting 20 or little more in UMD. U won't be able to use everything that way, but it could still pontentially be helpful.
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Post by mcbutcher on Mar 28, 2017 10:06:52 GMT
My Intel is 14 mate. I don't know why you have it at 16 lol. I started with 16 wisdom, put 4 points into CON while levelling and the rest in wisdom which brings it to 22 Joakim I didn't realise that was you in game. Thanks for the advice, a few other people I spoke to said that they went intel 14 at start and 21 con, rest wisdom. I have no need for any more skill points so no point putting points there. I was under the impression that wisdom was boosting AC, will save and giving me some extra spell slots. I am not the most proficient at building so a lot of this I am only learning. Can someone confirm? You are correct, Wisdom boost "monk" AC. However, since monks AC progression is nerfed on 3T, u will only be able to get 1 AC / 2 monk lvl's. And since you only got 10 in the end that's 5 AC max, which you will have by raising wisdom to 20. the two points in wisdom will however give you 1 more point in Will, which "mostly" isn't useful either since the build is pretty much immune to mind affecting spells. U can get blinded however, but that's nothing a potion won't fix. When I typed Barb is not correct for this build, I meant dwarf as a race. Human is by far the most suitable race for this build since 1) skillpoints matter. 2) features matter. And human got the most of both. Beginning stats doesn't help you in any other way than that you will 1) Be able to carry a bit more in human form. 2) have a bit more hp as to not immediately die when something hit you. But TBH, this is not something to worry much about since you won't be spending many minutes in human form except for when looking for a party or buffing. Why int 16, well it's not really neccassary, i would probably help more in con or strenght (for carrying), however, it makes it possible to go nuts with skills, like max out lore, or maybe move silently and hide. Perhaps getting 20 or little more in UMD. U won't be able to use everything that way, but it could still pontentially be helpful. hmmm, the str and con I don't see an issue in, I have other shifter builds with no str either.
CON is fine at 21. Intel though, some skills maybe would come in handy, but the only ones I see as necessary are: Disc, Spellcraft, Tumble, Parry (for widget and I will have a look to try fit in ESF) I will take lore if I have spare but again not needed. can't imagine a situation where I would use hide/ms as I won't have HIPS and wouldn't be one for corner sneaking.
oh btw, does WoF effect this build other than blind? I mean can you die from it in Ele form?
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Post by mcbutcher on Mar 28, 2017 10:09:26 GMT
Either way the difference between the skills and the benefits (or lack of) from wisdom, are not gonna "make or break" the build. I'm more so concerned that I am taking the correct feats. which will be update in the next 5 mins
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Post by jonlun on Mar 28, 2017 11:17:51 GMT
You dont need 3 imp crits, just imp crit kama and unarmed. And yes you can die from wof which is why wisdom is important.
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Post by jonlun on Mar 28, 2017 11:20:20 GMT
Also I might be blind but I dont see weapon finesse anywhere. Air elly has high dex..
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Post by mcbutcher on Mar 28, 2017 11:51:02 GMT
Also I might be blind but I dont see weapon finesse anywhere. Air elly has high dex.. you're right, I had Finesse in there on the original build, damn it, I'll have to check that out when I go home but as far as I am aware I was able to fit all those pre-epic feats I have there in and finesse as well
does everything else look ok to you?
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