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Post by ralkain on Dec 15, 2017 22:15:42 GMT
Are Monks viable in the endgame? I haven't seen much on them here. I'm considering a Monk (20), Ftr (18), SD (2), thinking Dex/AC monk here with 16 Fighter levels pre epic to near max ab and lots of puissant feats (maybe 8 pre epic monk levels). Also considering Monk (8), Fighter (6), DD (26) Str monk going the DR route. Neither of these seem quite satisfying, are there any decent monk non-shape changing end game builds? I'd hate go level one way up and find out its not useful  . Dave. |
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Post by jsnspncr90 on Dec 16, 2017 1:41:30 GMT
I don't know a ton about monks but DWD DR ends up being pretty irrelevant as your AC wont be good and you won't have crit immunity so mobs will eat right through your health and your damage wont be good enough to kill things before they kill you. The first option would be much better.
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Post by chreelister on Dec 16, 2017 2:06:57 GMT
I think Taroc might have one or two for endgame.  |
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Post by ralkain on Dec 16, 2017 4:50:00 GMT
I think Taroc might have one or two for endgame. I know Kamas are out, but does this server allow any other weapons for monk progression, like Quarterstaff or is fists a must still... |
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Post by chreelister on Dec 16, 2017 10:07:13 GMT
For Monk AB progression it is only fists, unless you go a Shifter shape. I have a couple of Hybrid Monks, Monk Fighter SD, one with Xbow, one with Throwing Axes. Monk for speed and mind immunity and Fighter for Puissant, AB and Feats. I have a bunch of 10 Monk characters too, mainly Shifters.
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Post by perrit on Dec 16, 2017 13:32:50 GMT
monks can work nicely end game, obviously having nice gear can help a lot, but a few builds can do well even without uber gear. Of the ones i've levelled the 2 i've liked most end game are dex based mk fgt sd and dex based mk fgt ass. I've posted both builds below based on the excel files i have, chances are i tweaked them slightly levelling up as i tend to do that the sd is unfocused in unarmed to get max puis damage, if i was to remake the ass one i would probably do the same, the reason i went halfling on the ass mk is to skin it as a Goblin Monk(21), Fighter(18), Shadowdancer(1), Human STR: 12 DEX: 16 (28) CON: 16 WIS: 8 INT: 14 CHA: 8 Human: (Quick to Master) 01: Monk(1): Toughness, Luck of Heroes, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist} 02: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows} 03: Monk(3): Weapon Finesse 04: Monk(4): DEX+1, (DEX=17) 05: Monk(5) 06: Monk(6): Great Fortitude, {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown} 07: Monk(7) 08: Monk(8): DEX+1, (DEX=18) 09: Monk(9): Blind Fight, {Improved Evasion} 10: Monk(10) 11: Monk(11) 12: Monk(12): DEX+1, Improved Critical: Unarmed, (DEX=19) 13: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus: Shortbow 14: Fighter(2): Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff 15: Fighter(3): Dodge 16: Fighter(4): DEX+1, Weapon Specialization: Shortbow, (DEX=20) 17: Fighter(5) 18: Fighter(6): Mobility, Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff 19: Fighter(7) 20: Fighter(8): DEX+1, Improved Critical: Shortbow, (DEX=21) 21: Monk(13): Epic Fortitude 22: Monk(14) 23: Monk(15) 24: Monk(16): DEX+1, Epic Reflexes, (DEX=22) 25: Monk(17) 26: Monk(18) 27: Monk(19): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline 28: Monk(20): DEX+1, (DEX=23) 29: Shadowdancer(1): {Hide in Plain Sight} 30: Fighter(9): Armor Skin 31: Fighter(10): Epic Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff 32: Fighter(11): DEX+1, (DEX=24) 33: Fighter(12): Epic Skill Focus: Parry, Epic Weapon Focus: Shortbow 34: Fighter(13) 35: Fighter(14): Epic Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff 36: Fighter(15): DEX+1, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=26) 37: Fighter(16): Epic Weapon Specialization: Shortbow 38: Fighter(17) 39: Fighter(18): Great Dexterity II, Epic Prowess, (DEX=27) 40: Monk(21): DEX+1, (DEX=28) Hitpoints: 516 Skillpoints: 267 Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 34/20/34 Saving Throw bonuses: Mind Effects: +2 BAB: 27 AB (max, naked): 37 (melee), 40 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 33/33 Spell Casting: Alignment Changes: 0 Discipline 43(54), Hide 43(52), Move Silently 43(52), Open Lock 1(10), Parry 43(62), Pick Pocket 1(10), Tumble 40(49), remaining skillpoints 51 |
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Post by perrit on Dec 16, 2017 13:34:41 GMT
Fighter(18), Monk(20), Assassin(2), Halfling
STR: 10
DEX: 18 (32)
CON: 14
WIS: 12
INT: 14
CHA: 8
Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature)
01: Monk(1): Luck of Heroes, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
02: Fighter(1): Weapon Finesse
03: Monk(2): Toughness, {Deflect Arrows}
04: Fighter(2): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Unarmed, (DEX=19)
05: Monk(3)
06: Fighter(3): Great Fortitude
07: Monk(4)
08: Fighter(4): DEX+1, Weapon Specialization: Unarmed, (DEX=20)
09: Fighter(5): Improved Critical: Unarmed
10: Monk(5)
11: Monk(6): {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}
12: Fighter(6): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Shuriken, Blind Fight, (DEX=21)
13: Monk(7)
14: Fighter(7)
15: Monk(8): Improved Critical: Shuriken
16: Fighter(8): DEX+1, Weapon Specialization: Shuriken, (DEX=22)
17: Monk(9): {Improved Evasion}
18: Monk(10): Skill Focus: Discipline
19: Monk(11)
20: Monk(12): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
21: Assassin(1): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
22: Fighter(9)
23: Fighter(10): Epic Weapon Focus: Unarmed
24: Fighter(11): DEX+1, Epic Fortitude, (DEX=24)
25: Fighter(12): Epic Weapon Focus: Shuriken
26: Fighter(13)
27: Monk(13): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=25)
28: Monk(14): DEX+1, (DEX=26)
29: Fighter(14): Epic Weapon Specialization: Unarmed
30: Monk(15): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=27)
31: Fighter(15)
32: Fighter(16): DEX+1, Epic Weapon Specialization: Shuriken, (DEX=28)
33: Monk(16): Armor Skin
34: Monk(17)
35: Fighter(17)
36: Monk(18): DEX+1, Great Dexterity III, (DEX=30)
37: Fighter(18): Epic Prowess
38: Monk(19)
39: Assassin(2): Great Dexterity IV, {Uncanny Dodge I}, (DEX=31)
40: Monk(20): DEX+1, (DEX=32)
Hitpoints: 472
Skillpoints: 222
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 34/23/33
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +4, Mind Effects: +2, Poison: +1, Fear: +2
BAB: 27
AB (max, naked): 43 (melee), 44 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 37/37
Spell Casting:
Alignment Changes: 0
Discipline 43(56), Hide 8(19), Move Silently 8(21), Spellcraft 20(22), Tumble 40(51), UMD 42(41), remaining skillpoints 41
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Post by ralkain on Dec 16, 2017 16:04:41 GMT
Thanks everyone, and Perrit that's exactly along the lines that I was thinking, 20 Monk, 16-18 Fighter, and 2-4 splash in something else. I'm glad to know this is viable
Although I was thinking of taking 16 Fighter, and 4 Monk pre-epic to near max out the AB at +19, with the rest of the levels coming post epic, shouldn't that make the Attack Progression with fists (+19/+16/+13/+10/+7/+4/+1), so 7 attacks without flurry.
Also, I think I remember years ago something about Circle Kick working better here, does anyone have the Circle Kick details?
Thanks,
Dave
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Post by ralkain on Dec 16, 2017 16:19:13 GMT
Although I was thinking of taking 16 Fighter, and 4 Monk pre-epic to near max out the AB at +19, with the rest of the levels coming post epic, shouldn't that make the Attack Progression with fists (+19/+16/+13/+10/+7/+4/+1), so 7 attacks without flurry. I'm guessing you went so much Monk early so that you could up your saves. But 12 Monk/8 Fighter is only +1 Fort and +1 Ref, over a 4 Monk/16 Fighter, and with the Monk's High dex and immune to mind attacks later I'm not sure that worth the -2 AB. Also I'm really considering a 20 Monk, 10 Cot, 10 Fighter with (4 Monk/10 CoT/6 Ftr) pre-epic. The CoT would grant even better fort saves, keep the pre-epic BaB at +19 and still allow for all the epic puissant stuff. The only drawback here is no UMD, or only 21 ranks late, how important do you think UMD is for a Monk? If super important, then I'll probably have to go Rogue or Assassin for the UMD and minor sneak. Dave. |
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Post by perrit on Dec 16, 2017 20:45:25 GMT
the main thing about more fighter levels in epics wasnt about ab / saves its about bonus feats, too many fighter levels pre epic end up with wasted feats that arent that important in my opinion
also cant cross class umd so be mindful of that if you feel your build will need it
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Post by ralkain on Dec 16, 2017 22:13:59 GMT
the main thing about more fighter levels in epics wasnt about ab / saves its about bonus feats, too many fighter levels pre epic end up with wasted feats that arent that important in my opinion also cant cross class umd so be mindful of that if you feel your build will need it That was my question, how important do you think UMD for the above char? I.e., what essential gear do you think I’d be missing (hopefully nothing essential). If I go 3 weapon puissant (not sure yet), there are plenty of useful feats tospend as fighter bonus ones. Thanks, you’ve been very helpful. Ralkain. |
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Post by perrit on Dec 16, 2017 23:26:31 GMT
handy to have umd on my mk fgt ass , but overall not that important as i've not missed it on the mk fgt sd , but it depends i guess on the gear you have available whether umd matters or not
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Post by taroc on Dec 17, 2017 4:28:24 GMT
I have a monk/fighter/sd dex-based fist fighter that does ok end game. No one takes circle kick but now NWN EE is here that might change since it's been fixed. If you take 16 fighter pre-epic you get +3 AB (still only 6 APR without flurry) but lose out on saves and waste a lot of feats (but might be good if you go unfocussed puissant). I think AC is lower too.
A few good players have strength-based monk/fighter/rogues (21/18/1) focussing on high HP with DR/resist gear and they do very well end-game.
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Post by ralkain on Dec 17, 2017 5:07:23 GMT
Ok guys, time to post the build I'm doing (20 Monk, 12 CoT, 8 Ftr).
The idea is to use armor/short sword early, then switch to unarmed later...
For ease of reading the table below, I'm not listing all the Monk bonus feats in the build:
(Imp. Unarmed, Cleave, Evasion/Imp Evasion, KD+Imp KD, Deflect Arrows, Flurry, Stunning Fist, +2 Mind Spells):
Dwarf (All points into Dex)
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12 Str 8 Wis
18 Dex (30) 14 Int
14 Con 6 Cha
Pre Epic Levels/Feats (BAB: +19, AB: +39, Fort: +42, Ref: +47, Will: +30)
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01: Mnk (01): Luck of Heroes
02: Ftr (01): Weapon Finesse
03: Ftr (02): Weapoon Focus: Unarmed and Shortsword
04: Ftr (03):
05: Ftr (04): Weapon Specialization: Shortsword
06: Ftr (05): Toughness
07: Mnk (02):
08: Ftr (06): Weapon Specialization: Unarmed
09: Cot (01): Great Fortitude
10: Cot (02): Improved Crit: Shortsword
11: Cot (03):
12: Mnk (03): Lightning Reflexes
13: Cot (04): Improved Crit: Unarmed
14: Cot (05):
15: Cot (06): Dodge, Skill Focus: Discipline
16: Cot (07):
17: Mnk (04):
18: Cot (08): Blind Fight, Expertise
19: Cot (09):
20: Cot (10): Improved Expertise
21: Mnk (05): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
22: Mnk (06):
23: Ftr (07):
24: Ftr (08): Epic Weapon Focus: Shortsword and Unarmed
25: Mnk (07):
26: Ftr (09):
27: Ftr (10): Epic Weapon Specialization: Shortsword and Unarmed
28: Mnk (08):
29: Mnk (09):
30: Mnk (10): Epic Skill Focus: Parry
31: Mnk (11):
32: Mnk (12):
33: Mnk (13): Armor Skin
34: Mnk (14):
35: Mnk (15):
36: Mnk (16): Great Dexterity I
37: Mnk (17):
38: Mnk (18):
39: Mnk (19): Great Dexterity II
40: Mnk (20):
Skills (218)
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43 Disc
43 Parry
43 Heal
40 Tumble
40 Spellcaft (20 ranks)
9 Lore (or other misc)
---
218
Thanks,
Ralkain
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Post by chreelister on Dec 17, 2017 5:38:20 GMT
When did you start doing that? That is only if you play v1.74 on an EE server. |
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