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EE Update
Apr 19, 2020 15:01:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by donojono on Apr 19, 2020 15:01:38 GMT
There was so many shifter nerfs I can not remember them all the shadow had knockdown immunity gone the kobold lost hide ms and freedom possibly ( the epic shape ) They has invis spell uses needed also. Maybe if these changes where back with coj was end game and golems did not exist so . I have Not seen drow or other shifters on the server in years and it’s not just related to pussiant or risen lord risen was made as it became good because trighton was a new area ofcourse pussiant added to the dps for solo at speed but no harm in being a good tank though with a chance of dps with the scythe .
You have a clean slate I would consider resetting some nerves and restrictions like no need for exotic for scimitar or rapier if you have elf Druid or elf rogue the new cleric spells are awesome but why nerf vestments and divine mellow spells etc . Reset ema or take a look at epic spells in general.
I second monk ac it’s ok to have it but then remember u get bonuses per x shifter levels right ? Maybe they r not needed instead .
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Post by Rijnius on Apr 19, 2020 15:20:31 GMT
One could consider exchanging most enemy weapons to ones with a lower crit multiplier and range so that the pressure of being crit immune is not as big as it is now. But shortbow enemies crit crit crit all the time, it is really annoying. If it was only a sling with 19-20x2 you could change the odds here, maybe increased base damage accordingly to compensate.
Wild elves with 10-20 crit range are a good example how to balance these things, they crit like half of the time but in return have very low base damage for their level. Today's enemies feel like critting for 200-300 damage regularly which is way too high for a fragile low CON toon. And - if you like to be mean - add some minor ticks of positive, magical and divine damage to at least some random weapons to make things interesting. Don't get me wrong, I was (and still am) pro-crit change on bows, but maybe these weapons should be reserved for better enemies than regular trash mobs.
The mano whipmaster is a good example for placement of these kind of enemies.
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Post by chreelister on Apr 19, 2020 17:33:48 GMT
This is a problem? For leveling up? I have never thought this was overpowered.
Immunity items are gone, even the Randoms. Fear, was always the exception. Fear was or is, supposedly bugged, that is why it made it in v7. Do we want this on the list now? Mords, Dispels have always been on the list of things to do change, but can be changed later without killing chars.
All gone, Drones too. The only nerf for Shifters, I am thinking of, is puissant. But I am liking the idea to get rid of the Temporary Weapon Buffs and bring back unique weapon damage per shape.
Findell, came up with some code that might have worked or might have not for this in 3T. It never got installed and tested. This did require NWNX, NWNX won't be in the new EE version. So this won't happen. Unless Beamdog changes the way it works.
We could release the restrictions of scimitar and rapier.
I think this is needed.
I am not sure what to do here, without changing the crits on bows, except for having some enemies not have Improve Critical (Longbow or Shortbow). I think Archers need to be in the game for the enemy, as it makes more sense to me to have them in most situations. More Xbowers could be added.
Like I said before, I am not interested in making anything better, right now. Just what needs nerfed, so far just puissant, Barb rage damage and DC, and maybe not have Shifters shape get the temp weapon bonus, but get something else. Items nerfs are no drones, no epic spells for just anybody to use, no immunities, except maybe Fear, no insta-killers, no etherealness cloaks with 5 times per day. I could see releasing restrictions on scimitars and rapiers, because that could affect your build and you would have to redo it, to optimize it.
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Post by angryanderson on Apr 19, 2020 18:21:35 GMT
Just be wary that the players used to playing on 3T may decide not to play on the new EE PW if everything gets nerfed to the point that everything becomes impossible to do other than by sheer grinding, or having to find a party (which is not always possible). Sure there are some builds that can do well in an end game area or two, but the majority of toons that players have in their vaults don't come out to play that often on reaching L40. I wouldn't obsess about trying to get everything balanced, as it will never happen. Keep changing and tweaking things for sure.
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Post by Rijnius on Apr 19, 2020 18:33:57 GMT
Just be wary that the players used to playing on 3T may decide not to play on the new EE PW if everything gets nerfed to the point that everything becomes impossible to do other than by sheer grinding, or having to find a party (which is not always possible). Sure there are some builds that can do well in an end game area or two, but the majority of toons that players have in their vaults don't come out to play that often on reaching L40. I wouldn't obsess about trying to get everything balanced, as it will never happen. Keep changing and tweaking things for sure. I think today the power creep e.g. from barb changes, puissant, drone, increased spell DC, more powerful (random) items, new weapon forging makes it overall an easier time compared to the 3T back in the days (2007) when I struggled even with bandits and that guy nobody ever kills anymore in wheaton farmlands.
From my memory, this was the first world I've been on where even the easiest enemies were difficult if you didn't know what to do. And that kept me interested.
If we have the opportunity to see the EE world a bit in this direction and make stuff a bit more challenging, I think it might be fun.
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Post by Findell on Apr 19, 2020 18:47:15 GMT
Same feeling, I totally agree with Rijnius !
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Post by donojono on Apr 19, 2020 19:31:36 GMT
Current 3t is too easy in a way with too many areas but it is also too hard in a way .
U could sneak in to Mano at one point or do the key befor commander was added and the caves underneath . Basicially areas where cleric and wizards did well where destroyed to stop solo beholders and necro is an example . The death ray and rest spawns and dispel cone increased in power. I would like to see some a variety of areas party play or solo but I would not like to see an area destroyed so that no one then goes there . Elves Varuls are another example immune to paralyse but they have insane spot and damage anyway so why give the assassin such a hard time . Under dark also the drow assassin and mage are great enemies so that no need to have them para immune a better balance
Asbiats another example para immune mind immune insane fort .
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Post by dizgrace on Apr 20, 2020 4:54:06 GMT
(Just in case I forget, since the slay evil weapons are out, maybe the end game bosses should be evil again so as to not void the poor only-really-useful-against-bosses, nova damage smiters)
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Post by Jonales on Apr 20, 2020 9:03:49 GMT
Oh boy here we go lol.
*Thinks for a few minutes*
If I was Chree, what I might do is take everything with regards to whatever goals I set - like difficulty - slowly and develop it more over time. I don't think the answer lies simply in reverse all the things we farmed with hehe. That's just my opinion put as simply as can be. There are reasons behind it. I think Chree knows most of them. Maybe stop the 900 damage hellball though lol.
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Post by Rijnius on Apr 20, 2020 17:40:37 GMT
Based on what was said so far, I think the big issues (like drones) were already addressed properly. So whatever the course on the module will be, based on judgement of previous masterpieces done by Chree, I will most definitely end up liking the new EE module. AND I JUST CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT!!!
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Post by mcbutcher on Apr 20, 2020 20:23:47 GMT
Agree with Rij, I really can't wait.
More excited about this than I have been for a game in a long time. Will be the only good thing to come from this Pandemic ....
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Post by gin on Apr 21, 2020 18:51:40 GMT
Same here, cant remember looking forward to the release of a game/mod as much as I do now. Especially since core issues are addressed now. It must have been dozens of times, that I had a moan about drones and etherelness cloaks and this and that (Im sure ape and perrit can attest to that ). Basically all the things, that made the server too soft and too easy to "master", felt to me like it shrank the "OG" 3T experience and turned it more into an endless grind. On that note, one thing I really wouldnt miss going forward are dedicated curser bards in general. Yes they get significantly weaker without drones and cloaks, but they will still be the first builds to pretty much solo everything once they can hips. Its just too easy using UMD for BBOD scrolls gathering the mobs and hips,curse,hips,curse. Especially in area's with predominantly melee mobs. Aside from all that, I think one of the more fundamental flaws of 3T is the issue that revolves around an imbalance between AC/Crit immunity/True Seeing/Sport/Listen/SR For the longest time, AC builds just were not viable at all past a certain point in the game. The addition of new areas with resonable AB mitigated the problem, however AC builds were still only viable if you had "True Seeing" at all times or you would fall prey to some insane flurry of sneak attacks. Spot and Listen were never worth taking on 99% of the toons because you wouldnt be able to reliably detect mobs anyway. On top of that, and already addressed in part by rij, is the overwhelming rate of crits. I think these hostile conditions are the main reason why people lean towards this handful of cheese builds we have seen over and over the past few years. Dedicated cursers, crit immune shifters or something with 10 Pm lvls is pretty much were the meta has settled at some point. Spot/Listen/True Seeing: I think for a healthy, diverse game it is essential for skills like spot and listen to be viable at lower ranks (meaning 60ish mabe 70ish). Maxing either of those and perhaps having additional boosts from your bard song or some items should be enough to detect 95% of the mobs. AC/Dex/Str: As for Ac, I think ac around the mid 70's to 80's shud be viable in most areas. Now, that will never be the case if threat ranges on mob crits remain the same, ESPCIALLY on archers. The problem here is simply, that archers will always catch you "flatfoot", you get critted without ever having the chance to see what killed you. The imbalance between dex and str builds is further bleeding into this. If you want Ac on the current mod you need to go DEX because you do get resonable dmg from pussiant and str builds cannot hope to achieve relevant ac. SR: Later in the game we are looking at mobs with SR counts that only dedicated casters can handle. This prematurely kills alot of design space, for caster builds / hybrids. There is simply no need for that, the balancing inherent to spellcasting is enough. High Dc is required to unlock the potential of the more powerfull spells and most damage spells scale with the caster lvls anyway. The few spells that can be viable on non-dedicated caster should not be killed off by a default SR setting. Yes maybe WOF needs some adjusting then, but I would much rather see design space opened for hundreds of hybrid builds, than be stuck with the 39/1 caster, the cheese bard and the 2 types of shifters. If PVP is going to be a part of the new MOD, I think it is espcially important to make it so, that players dont have to resort to dedicated PvM toons that meet very specific requirement, like cirt immunity.
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Post by Rijnius on Apr 21, 2020 19:47:19 GMT
Yes, regarding spot/listen, I have no idea why it needs to be so insanely high (for example vs. mano cats). It's not that you go lot over 40-50 if you don't put some efford into it but as I recall you need like 110 spot or something for those.
That's something that could easily be changed.
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EE Update
Apr 21, 2020 20:15:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by donojono on Apr 21, 2020 20:15:40 GMT
+50 spot is also not easy to get on assassin or trapper or rogue gear anyway . You also need t11 just to hide in dark moor
Bards r good but require a lot of t10 t11 and boss 6 as a Basis . Risen and air ele and barb wizard and 30pm and cleric require nothing but drops and shop gear at the moment. Wizard And sorc actually needs only quest rewards at the moment . To farm
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Post by apecraze on Apr 21, 2020 21:55:46 GMT
Wait … Wait … who's that Gin
Gin in the Bottle?
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